Veep has entered the chat. But really, has it ever left?
You could say Veep officially unsubscribed when the beloved HBO series ended in mid-2019. “We were racing out the door,” recalls David Mandel of the Emmy-winning political comedy starring Julia Louis-Dreyfus wrapping its run after seven seasons.
Mandel, who took over as showrunner in season five from creator Armando Iannucci, steered the series into the Trump era and bowed out ahead of the 2020 election. “So much of the show had become strangely different because of how much Donald Trump changed politics,” he says.
But now there is something different in the air. I’ve chatted with the showrunner regularly since he took over at Veep in 2016, and in the years after the show went off the air. But today he’s saying something new and surprising.
“Politics seem fun again,” he says.
Did I hear that right?
“I don’t wake up dreading looking at the news,” he explains. “I wake up wondering what’s going on. How much money has Kamala Harris raised so far? All of a sudden, things seem enjoyable.”
And that’s not to mention that Veep is going viral again. In the lead-up to and after President Joe Biden‘s announcement that he was dropping out of the 2024 presidential race and endorsing Vice President Harris, Veep memes have been flooding social media, with relevant clips of Louis-Dreyfus’ starring politician circulating once again.
One particularly prescient clip is from the season two finale (which aired in 2013), when then-VP Selina finds out that the president (who viewers never saw) will remove himself from the ticket and won’t run for a second term. She breathlessly informs her staff that she intends to run — for president. Even Ianucci commented on social media after users started sharing the clip. “Still working on the ending,” he wrote.
Mandel is enjoying the clips and, particularly, that season two moment. “I wasn’t there yet,” the writer, director and showrunner says of Veep‘s earlier seasons. “That’s a clip of why, when I got offered the job, I took it. I just get to admire what a great scene it is. I love Gary’s nosebleed in the bathroom and then Selina telling the staff. I love it all,” he says, also referencing the season three scene between Tony Hale and Louis-Dreyfus when she finds out she’s going to be president.
Mandel has also enjoyed the speculation around who Harris’ running mate will be, which has prompted the recirculation of another memorable scene from season seven — when Mandel was very present — in response to Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s name reportedly being on Harris’ list of potential vice presidents. When faced with a possible female running mate in Veep, Selina dismissed the idea of a “two-cooter ticket,” telling her team, “The American people work hard for a living, OK? They don’t need that kind of bullshit.”
“How much Selina Meyer hated other women really made me laugh,” says Mandel. “I’ve enjoyed seeing a little bit of mine.”
HBO also acted quickly to promote Veep to subscribers of its Max streaming service. Veep viewership has since jumped more than 350 percent, according to entertainment data company Luminate. Mandel says he found out when everyone else did, but applauds the brilliant timing: “Someone I think very, very high up at the top, who hired me at Veep many years ago and who shall remain nameless, is very smart.”
With many poised to rewatch or start the series for the first time, Mandel has advice on where to begin: “Head to season one — and subscribe to Max!” He may even start his first-ever rewatch with his daughter, who has shown interest in discovering what this Selina Meyer fever is all about (though he is hesitant, given that the series famously turned swearing into an art form).
Of course, Veep did indeed write an ending. But Mandel makes clear that the celebrated bleak-yet-hopeful series finale was show-specific. “We wrote a Selina ending,” he says, laughing. “Thank gosh, this is not Selina.” Is the burgeoning Harris era giving him hope?
Below, we unpack the Harris-Meyer comparisons, whether or not the continued interest is sparking any reboot fever and why Veep only gets better with age: “The crazier politics get, the more Veep holds up!”
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We haven’t chatted like this in a while — it’s nice to be back! Let’s start with what you make of the surface-level comparisons happening between Selina Meyer and Kamala Harris — from their obvious similarities as women, to their appearances, to gaffes turned memes like Harris’ “coconut tree” speech.
First, I love that apparently Kamala is a Veep fan. I think it’s great. I think it’s great that she has a sense of humor, because we’ve seen the other side that has no sense of humor. There’s something about someone who can laugh at themselves that just seems safer in the White House, as opposed to someone who can’t laugh at themselves and thinks weird references to Hannibal Lecter are funny.
So I think it’s a delight that she’s a fan. I love anything that’s positive. But I get driven crazy when people try to use Veep to diminish her. I hate that. Yes, they are both women. Yes, they are both VPs being elevated. Selina was elevated into office; Kamala is being elevated to head of the ticket. There are some simple comparisons. But there are two types of people doing Veep memes right now: There are people really enjoying Selina’s moment of telling her staff that she’s running for president; there’s a joy there that’s fun and nice and celebratory. And then there are assholes who are using it differently. Surprise surprise, Kamala is a woman of color, and it seems like those people are using it as a simple way of insulting her. So I don’t like that part.
You ended Veep with a series finale that was filled with “exquisite torture,” to quote you at the time, for Selina Meyer. But the end of the episode jumped ahead in time and dangled some hope by elevating Richard Splett (the character played by Sam Richardson) as the future of the party. Is Harris representing some of that hope you predicted would come?
When we ended Veep, we were racing out the door. So much of the show had become strangely different because of how much Donald Trump changed politics. He would say things that on our show, in the early seasons, Selina would say and then would have to apologize for and would lose support. And then all of a sudden, here was a guy coldly saying things and not caring about the consequences, or embracing something he would say that was horrible and double down. When the show ended there was that sense of, “Someday, Richard Splett.” We gave him the Nobel Prize for solving the Middle East crisis. It wasn’t hard to imagine that was a hard-to-figure-out situation, but who knew that even that joke would be relevant. I did hope there would be hope.
I’m not sure we’re going to fix the great divide that’s going on in this country right now. If I meet a Trump supporter, I no longer can agree to disagree. And the flip side is more than mutual. I’m not quite sure she or anyone is going to heal the great divide. However, I am just so excited by the energy right now. It does feel like a new generation in a new, wonderful way. I’m enjoying her; I’m enjoying the second gentlemen, Doug. And there is nothing funnier than watching Trump sputter out of control and complain about the money he spent on the first debate. If I am Kamala Harris’ team, I would challenge him to four debates. She’s raised so much money in the past few days, she should agree to pay for them. And say: “Don’t worry Donald, you just show up and answer our questions about the judges you appointed who overturned Roe v. Wade — tell us what you really think about a woman’s choice and a woman’s body.”
Selina Meyer (Julia Louis-Dreyfus) with Gary (Tony Hale) in Veep.
One user summed up the Veep storyline that comes after Selina’s run for president ends in a tie and Hugh Laurie’s running mate Tom James could be voted into the Oval, which was the season four finale. [Mandel took over after this cliffhanger.] Here’s the tweet: “Let’s remind ourselves that #Veep has already written a fictional version of this script .. Kamala *inherits* the actual presidency. Then runs. The electoral college is tied. The house vote is tied. Which means the Senate has to choose the tie breaking candidate. And that ends up with … J.D. Vance as POTUS.”
No. There’s no version where that’s happening. I knew Tom James. Tom James was a very brilliant strategist and a charming man. And [Trump’s VP pick] J.D. Vance, you sir, are no Tom James [Selina’s VP].
You and I often had those discussions during Veep about, who is Trump? There was Jonah [the character played by Timothy Simons]. But this goes back to the comment earlier about the people who are trying to hang Selina around Kamala’s neck: The Selina-est candidate is Donald Trump. Vain, worried about his looks, has a ridiculously better relationship with his body people than his own children, petty, vindictive, worries about his own money, doesn’t believe what he says, says whatever to get elected. Even Selina supported a woman’s right to chose — on that, she held firm. Somewhere in there, she had a moral compass … or some kind of something. Maybe a gyroscope.
Harris’ team, meanwhile, is embracing the memes. Do you plan to engage?
The Veep team is standing by and ready to do their part! I think there’s a generational thing going on. It’s so TikTok heavy. It’s beyond Twitter — we are in TikTok world. It’s kind of great. With the coconut thing — if you can have fun with that, my God, that’s great.
Last election cycle saw you and the Veep crew coming together for reunion fundraisers that raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for the Biden campaign and to benefit the Democratic Party of Wisconsin for the key battleground state. Those reunions made a critical difference in the outcome. Will you be doing so again?
We’ve been talking with our old friends at WisDems. We’re plotting some things. Things got a lot more interesting in the past couple days.
The Simpsons has similarly been going viral for predicting Kamala Harris’ elevation, in its case, by way of Lisa Simpson.
I love it. I don’t do as much of this with Veep; I was too inside the bubble and there was no time when we were working on Veep where I thought, “Wouldn’t it be funny if this happens?” But when I watch The Simpsons and they make a joke about the future, I do think that to myself, because I’m just watching it as a fan. God, they are so often right. The real failure of the Writers Guild strike is that the guild did not figure out how to get The Simpsons and Veep writers residuals for when they correctly predicted the future.
You and I also talked about this during the last election — at that point, Veep had been off the air for a couple of years. But when Biden was running against Trump, I felt that at the time, “Boy, people are talking about Veep more than when it was on the air.” And now, times a thousand. Today, there may be more people checking out Veep, and I can’t think of anything better. I hope they are enjoying. The crazier politics gets, the more Veep holds up!
So, does all of this Veep resurgence make you more or less inclined to ever bring the show back?
There is a group [Veep] chat. But there was a mini chat of a couple of us who were standing back at all of this, a little bit shocked by the Veep resurgence. It’s that double-edged sword of, yeah, of course I want to come back. I loved every second of it. I loved that cast. I loved what we did. But, can you imagine? We’re right back to imagining if we were trying to film a season right now and all of this was going on. We’d be throwing scripts in the garbage left and right. We need things to calm down and heal before Veep’s sort of horrible outlook on the world returns. I think it’s funnier when things are going well and we joke about how bad things are, then when things are going badly. But boy, it makes me think a lot about the show in a really good way. I love people taking about the show and sharing it.
What if Kamala were elected president? Do you think that could be a ripe time to return?
I’m not sure winning solves [the divide] we’re living in right now. And I’m not sure you can make a show for half the country. Though, maybe with streaming [you can]. There was a wonderful time when both sides really enjoyed Veep, and I have less of a sense of that with the MAGA folks. I’m not being told they do. I’m not saying they don’t [enjoy the show], but not in the original sense where Republicans did then, when I would visit D.C. and meet people and staffers. That’s only a few years ago, and it’s just a very different world. Back when presidential candidates had much fewer than 34 felony counts against them.
As someone who has written for a fictional female politician, what do you envision Kamala Harris is up against?
A lot of other countries have had female leadership and have done quite well with it. It’s time for us to figure it out.
After weeks of the Democratic party being divided, amid calls for Biden to step aside, do you feel a sense of reinvigoration now?
That was a horrific, sick-to-your-stomach time. History will talk about what Biden accomplished legislatively over these four years. Taking the stepping aside completely out of it, when history looks back at what he passed, especially with a divided Senate, there is a great historical ranking in Biden’s future in a really wonderful way. I love and respect the guy. In the end it was tough and hard; I didn’t have any good answer. Now that we’re on the other side of it, I’m really pleased where we ended up.
There is something different going on right now, which makes me feel like it was the right answer. We’ll judge it in a couple months, but there’s something going on now that you can feel.
Donald Trump, the “great builder,” who had control of the legislature, could not get an infrastructure bill passed, who wasted his capital trying to end health care and couldn’t accomplish that either. People forget. A million dead from COVID. This country shut down. We were stuck inside our houses. I wish inflation were a little bit lower, but what Biden did legislatively with the infrastructure? Some of the infrastructure stuff and factory building was so good that in most districts, Republicans are trying to take credit for it even though they didn’t vote for the bill. History will judge Biden well. It was an amazing four years of governance.
