Luke Gilford heard Dolly Parton‘s voice over the speakers while attending a 2016 Pride event in Northern California, so he followed the music. Once he located the source, he also discovered a group of people that would change his life and the trajectory of his career.

“It was this electric charge,” explained Gilford of seeing members of the International Gay Rodeo Association in a booth. “I could tell that they were real cowboys and not the Village People, and it blew my mind. I think that’s many people’s first reaction because you realize that there really are gay cowboys. They convinced me to go to New Mexico the very next weekend. I went and it blew my mind and my heart wide open. I was hooked.”

The chance encounter led to a four-year journey during which time Gilford criss-crossed the Southern United States while accompanying the group to gay rodeos and documenting them for what would become a book of intimate portraits titled National Anthem. Gilford knew his way behind the camera as he had, up until that point, been an in-demand photographer who had shot boldfaced names like Jane Fonda, Lil Nas X, Bella Hadid, Michelle Pfeiffer, Lizzo and Pamela Anderson. He’d also directed music videos for Kesha and Troye Sivan and campaigns for Valentino, Maybelline and Mercedes-Benz.

He couldn’t shake the leather and rhinestones or the rodeo and it’s LGBTQ denizens so he dove deeper into the subculture as inspiration for his first screenplay and, eventually, his directorial debut. Also called National Anthem, the Variance Films and LD Entertainment release, now in theaters, casts Charlie Plummer as Dylan, a soft-spoken construction worker who takes an opportunity to work at a ranch where he discovers a vibrant community of rodeo performers who openly explore their identities and sexuality. Eve Lindley, Rene Rosado, Mason Alexander Park and Robyn Lively round out the cast of the film, which features original music by Perfume Genius.

Following a recent special advanced American Cinematheque screening, Gilford sat on stage at the Los Feliz 3 for a Q&A session with The Hollywood Reporter that covered why the rodeo has always been close to his heart, the serendipitous circumstances of casting Plummer as the lead and what’s next now that he’s got his first film under his belt. Below is a condensed version of that discussion.

You grew up in Colorado where your father was a member of the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association. You’ve said that one of your earliest memories was at the rodeo seeing your father in all his gear…

Yes, there’s nothing like the rodeo. The whole American mythology is just out there in the open air with rhinestones, hairspray, blood, dirt and lipstick — all the best things. For a child, that’s a feast for the eyes and kind of overwhelming for the senses. I love Western culture, obviously, and I also love nature and wide-open spaces, places with no literal markers telling you where to go or who you are. It’s so beautiful. We moved [from Colorado] to Northern California and I kind of got disconnected from that world and really missed it. In 2016, I discovered the subculture of the International Gay Rodeo Association, it’s a special world.

Paint that picture because I read that you were at a Pride event in Northern California when you looked across a crowded landscape and heard Dolly Parton’s voice …?

It was a spiritual journey. We heard Dolly Parton’s voice [over the speakers] and walked over to this booth filled with some of the folks that you see in the film. I recognized them and they immediately recognized me [as kindred spirits]; it was this electric charge. Well, first of all, I could tell that they were real cowboys and not the Village People, and it blew my mind. I think that’s many people’s first reaction because you realize that there really are gay cowboys. They convinced me to go to New Mexico the very next weekend. I went and it blew my mind and my heart wide open. I was hooked. They were so warm and welcoming, and I ended up going on tour with them to different rodeos over a span of four years as part of the process in making what became the book National Anthem.

Did you go on tour with the intent to take photographs or did that happen organically?

I went to that very first rodeo with the camera, but I was very timid, not knowing what my place would be. At that time, I was doing a lot of celebrity work, but a lot of these people don’t even have smartphones, so they did not care about [that part of my work]. It was so cool that they just embraced me for who I am and not any other reason. They loved having a new member of the community, and they really opened up and let me photograph them and take portraits. During the process, we would tell each other stories. I saw myself reflected so much in their stories of heartbreak, loss and belonging. There were these throughlines and that’s how I started writing and eventually how it became [the movie].

What was your writing process like?

I remember being so lost and overwhelmed by how many stories I was taking in. Eventually, I focused in on the most intimate and personal, which was my own story. I thought, ‘OK, let’s discover this world through a main character’s eyes.’ That felt like the right place to start for my first feature.

I’ve heard you mention in other interviews that this is your story. Can you share a little bit about what you mean by that and how personal this movie is to your own journey? Did you get welcomed into a community like this, just as Dylan does in the movie?

Well, I have lived in different queer communities. My first love was a trans woman who was in a relationship. I mean, there’s a lot of myself in there, but what’s beautiful about the writing process is that you can take bits and pieces of one’s own experience and throw it together [with other stories].

What happened next?

On March 16, 2020, I had finished a draft that I really liked. And then three days later, on March 19, the world shut down [due to the pandemic]. But it really was a huge blessing because that was a completely different version of the script. I have a co-writer, David Largman Murray, who is a dear friend. He was an incredible part of the process, too, because it was so personal, it was helpful to have someone who did not grow up in this world to offer that kind of outsider perspective on it. That whole year, I ended up putting it aside, and then in early ’21, after a whole year of not going to the rodeo and really missing it, I went back on the road to visit my friends. I rewrote a draft and told myself that if I hadn’t sold the script by Oct. 31, 2021, I would make a version of the movie shot on my iPhone. And then I ended up selling it to LD Entertainment on Oct. 13, 2021.

Can we talk about Charlie Plummer? Were you aware of his work before casting him in this? Did you consider anyone else for the part of Dylan?

It was one of those life moments that happened, but I had shot him before, in 2018 or 2019, for a portfolio about young, hot actors. He ended up being the last one we shot because there were all these actors with big attitudes coming in first, so they kept pushing [the schedule] back. He was so patient and so kind, and that really stuck with me. Then we had the rest of the day to go through the sunset into the evening and we just bonded. The stylist put him in a silk western shirt, and it was around the time I had been writing the script, so it took my breath away. I was like, holy shit, that’s dope.

He was on my mind for literally years while I was writing. When I sold it to LD, it was so uncanny because they said, “Have you heard of this actor, Charlie Plummer? We think he’d be amazing for this.” I said, “Can you get it to him?” Two or three years later, I got a call from a blocked number, and it was Charlie. We talked for three hours and that was that.

He can convey so much without speaking, just through body language. How much of that is natural and how much of it was you directing him?

The first conversation was so meaningful because it became clear that we were completely on the same page about what we wanted to make. We’re both huge fans of My Own Private Idaho. He’s a diehard River Phoenix fan. That was the reference point for both of us in terms of performance style and the character. That was a great place for us to start, and we were just so in each other’s heads throughout the process. He was a child actor and so he was also able to really help me with [Cassidy, the younger brother of his character who is played by Joey DeLeon]. He has a younger brother in real life, so there was so much that was serendipitous and felt really natural. We were able to communicate oftentimes without words, just giving each other looks and kind of knowing what to do next.

How did you settle on Eve Lindley?

Zackary Drucker, an incredible filmmaker, producer, artist and multi-hyphenate, is a dear friend and someone I’ve known for 20 years. From the very beginning I wanted her to produce this. Once she read the script, she said right away that there was this young woman named Eve who hadn’t done much but there was something really special about her. So, she was one of the first actors that I met for the part. She has a great naturalistic performance style, and immediately we had such a connection. She was willing to really go there and be vulnerable. She came from New York, and she had a lot of the hardness that comes in New York. A big part of my process with her was trying to melt that away. We had an ongoing joke of bringing out the sunshine that was a big part of Sky and so she really wanted to embody that. I love her and can’t wait to see what she does next.

In any movie with gay or LGBTQ-themes, we’re so used to seeing traumatic events propel the story. You didn’t do that here. Was that an intentional decision?

Yeah, so much of the tension in the film is really in Dylan’s mind and, with the viewer in just waiting for the other ball to drop. It was a very conscious choice. I didn’t want to be irresponsible and make something that does not represent the world that we live in, but I really wanted to see something that was more hopeful. Every day queer people are inflicted with brutal and dehumanizing violence. Why do we need to see that on screen all the time? It really felt like it was time to have something that was more about the beauty of this community, and the joy and the celebration.

What was it like to work with horses and animal wranglers, and work in the rodeo?

Don’t do it. Don’t do it. [Laughs] We shot in 17 days, so horses ate up 90 percent of that time.

Because this is such a personal story, what does your family think of the film?

Oh man, this is an emotional question, but I was just with my family in San Francisco for Frameline and it has been very healing for us as a family. My parents have seen it three times now with audiences and there have been some really, really beautiful conversations that have come out of it. It’s really opened things up. The thesis of the film is moving past our differences and choosing to love each other. And that has really come out.

I wanted to ask about the title. You started this project as a book of photographs in 2016, when Donald Trump was president. Now the film National Anthem is coming out during a time of intense political divide. How are you feeling about the title and what it signifies right now?

When I went down to New Mexico, and then all throughout the South and the Southwest, one thing that really stood out to me was just how bold and brave this community is in taking back that power, taking back the flag and saying, “No, this is my country too. I can be whatever I want to be.” It’s so wild to me the way that some of the radical right has taken the flag and these symbols of patriotism when it’s supposed to be for all of us. The intention behind it was to say that this is for us, too, and for us not to be pushed out or excluded from the narrative.

I hate to ask this on the eve of your first film coming out, but what’s next? Are you ready to get back in the director’s chair?

I feel like I’m addicted now. I just want to do it again and again, and I want to make things with friends. I wrote a script last year that I’m sharing now, and there are a few different things [happening]. Writing is the hardest part of the process for me, so I’ve really been trying to find the head space to do that. But I really believe in getting out in nature and shutting the phone off and writing things down.  

Interview edited for length and clarity.